The Alchemized Spirit

Overcoming Pain and Embracing Non-Linear Growth w/Hayley Ambriz | Ep. 10

• Ashleigh Vee

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Can pain be transformed into purpose? How do we find healing and growth in our darkest moments? This heartfelt and inspiring episode features my best friend, soul-sister & mind, body, and spirit guide, Hayley Ambriz. 

Hayley shares her journey of overcoming abandonment, depression, anxiety, and addiction at a young age. Through 12-step programs, therapy, and service, she found solace in the stories and experiences of others, ultimately discovering that her pain could be a pinpoint to her purpose and passion.

Hayley emphasises the importance of community and holding space for others even when they are in pain. She offers a powerful tool of asking someone if they want to be heard or if they want feedback before offering either. We also discuss the practice of joy and healing, the value of taking action when faced with anxiety, and the substantial impact of being in a joy-filled environment.

Join us for this uplifting and transformative conversation that explores the balance of being of service, the non-linear nature of healing and growth, and the idea that self-doubt can serve as a guide to spiritual expansion. Listen in and become inspired to embrace your own story, create a sense of growth and purpose, and empower others on their journey.

Follow Hayley on Instagram here or  @hayleyambriz

Visit Hayley/s Website www.thehayven.com

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Ashleigh:

Hello bug, We are already laughing. Hi Welcome, Welcome on my podcast. I'm so. This is so special to have you on. Yeah.

Hayley:

I'm so happy to be here and I feel the joy and the love and for whoever is listening to this, wherever you're at in your day it's morning, afternoon, it's night, maybe you're having a joyous day, maybe it's not a great day, maybe you're in a medium of it, but this is going to be the episode for you because we're going really in there about all of it the good, the bad, the joy. How to reach the joy, how to embody the joy. You know, and also, i hope, to get vulnerable about a lot of painful truths and things that I've overcome and alchemised in my own life.

Ashleigh:

What an intro. Yes, i feel like most people who come on podcasts, they're always like I'm so excited to be here and it's like the same, which is like amazing. And there we are. Haley just summarised the freaking podcast for us already, and you put my laptop on. Do not disturb. Oh, bag, this is so exciting. Okay, so I gave the intro. You are amazing, you're incredible, And I always ask people when they come on to the podcast what their big message is for the world, like everyone has, especially if they're in this industry or with space. It's like someone has a big message to share with everyone, and you said that your big message is that your pain is the pin point of your purpose and passion and your sufferings can be your service. Yes, And so tell me more about that. How did you get there? Why? Why is that so important to you?

Hayley:

Yes, and that is really if the big and I'm so glad we're starting here because if that is the big takeaway from this and anybody listening to this, everybody has their own unique experience of trauma or pain, or it doesn't even have to be trauma, right, just any adversity that you have faced. I truly believe that there was always purpose and suffering, there's always purpose and pain, and not only are our hardest moments of life a pin point to our purpose, but it could be a direct map, and when I look back on everything that I've overcome, i've realized that that is my greatest gift, that is my greatest power, that is how I can be a leader, because I've experienced a certain level of pain in certain areas where I have gone through it, and then I can hold someone's hand through it, right, and being able to. You know there's therapists and doctors and all sorts of people out there who maybe haven't been in your shoes right, and so it's obviously great to have your therapy And I'm so all about that. And I also believe that community is important, because in community is where we find other people who have gone through the same experiences as us, and then they say you know me too, me too, and I've always had that. I've had and I've always sought out for it as well. Right, like I've done a lot of 12 step programs and therapy and healing of all sorts. But I'm just going to take it back. I'm going to take it back a little bit here And just talk about childhood.

Hayley:

You know, i went through a lot at a very young age And I experienced a lot of abandonment And from, you know, my dad not being there, my mom being a single mom and her dealing with mental health. And you know I come from a long line of suicide. So my grandma, my great grandma, my great great grandma, and other people in my family, so it was in my blood, right, it was already in my genes that I was predisposed to having depression, anxiety, and with that came also addiction. So I would say by the age of 13, i was already heavily addicted to drugs, to alcohol. I was already independent, you know. I was in and out of homes. We lost our home And I kind of was like you know, i'm just going to be on my own, i'm going to be an adult at age 12. See, yeah, you know, and it's funny because when I started sharing my story as a child, the one it felt like to be independent at that age, the amount of people who said me too was ridiculous. The amount of people who have also not had homes, the amount of people have also gone through addiction at a really young age And I always felt alone in it until I didn't, until I realized, oh no, a lot of people experience this and worse.

Hayley:

Not that we compare our traumas, that we compare our pain, but yeah, there's, there's a lot of people who also experience that and they are the ones who held my hand, my therapist, guided me. My therapist, the professionals you know whether I needed to be on medication or whether I needed to go into super deep trauma therapy but the people who really helped me with, the people who were just normal people who went through the same experiences me and came out the other end and said me too, and said your life can be abundant and joyous and free and you can have everything you ever wanted And it doesn't matter where you came from, you know. And so when I first started my journey of being of service to others was really when I was doing 12 step programs. Right, and it's all about being of service, and you know there's 12 step programs for everything the drugs, for alcohol, for sex, for spending money, for eating all of it. And at the time, living in LA, which you know, la can be a lot of people's places of addiction And it can also be a lot of people's places for healing, because what I know for sure is there's a big community of love and healing here. And I started again in these 12 step programs being of service to other people And it was just a natural talent that I had to be able to use my voice and growing up and being a child actor, always being on stage that was also helpful, right, public speaking and things like that.

Hayley:

But I realized is that that's that was what helped me the most of being of service to others who have been through what I have been through. And you don't, you're never going to be fully healed, you're never going to be at a perfect place If that's not. When you start helping people. You know they say, if someone is one day sober, you can still help someone who's zero day sober. You know the second that you start using your healing and your experience for somebody else, that's going to amplify everything that you do. So, yeah, that's that's really what I mean by the pain. So, again, the things that I went through as a kid, my pain, that and I say that the pain can be the pinpoint to your passion and to your purpose How can I help others? Well, what have you been through? You know what are the hard times that you've been through Because, again, so specifically, you can help another person right And and and also just being able to talk freely about your trauma and about your experiences, and that's a whole nother thing.

Hayley:

I think nowadays it's being more and more in celebrated to talk about all of your experiences, which I love, right, but there's still a stigma.

Hayley:

There is still is people. There's still people who are judges I mean, obviously judgmental, but people know hush, hush on that. If you come from a family who you know they're like, don't talk about any of that, right, and it could be hard. So just using your voice is also powerful, like you don't have to do anything other than tell your experience to another person And you have no idea what that story can do for someone or who, who they tell that story to you know, yeah. So, again, i truly anyone listening to this, whatever you're going through, whether it's something that happened a long time ago. Maybe it's something that just happened now. How I get through my hardest times is knowing whoa this is for a bigger purpose than me. I'm going through this so that down the line with someone else is going through this. I have some type of experience, some type of knowledge, some type of light, some type of love, and I can have more compassion and empathy for others.

Ashleigh:

Amazing, so, so beautiful.

Ashleigh:

There was so much there.

Ashleigh:

Like I want to stop you a million times, but you are a miracle, first of all, and I've told you that so many times, and like I know your whole story, you being my best friend, like I know, and I'm just like astounded at how you are, like the alchemy spirit actually, because you like went through so much And you've like you are the shining light, you know, and you've had, in some ways, such a radical transformation compared to like the person that you used to be, but then, in a way, i feel like you were always that person you know.

Ashleigh:

So I just wanted to say that And for people that are, because I think, when we're in service based industries and like you're, you know your spiritual guide, mind, body, soul guide and I'm a coach And like, if people are on 12 step programs, their services very accessible to them, and I'm wondering, like, how do we get people to? how can people like normal people get access to service, get access? And I know you spoke now about like sharing your story, like being open and, finally, you don't know who your story can help. Maybe it's for a friend, maybe it's for this. How are some ways that people can do that if they're not in these, like institutions or jobs.

Hayley:

So I forget who and where. I literally just heard this. You know, if you want to change the world, if you want to change the outer world, you have to change your inner world. And how do you change your inner world that direct people closest to you, whether that is your partner, your parents, your best friends? you know what I mean Being of service just to one person, whether, again, someone that you hang out with every day, a family member. You know, you start there And I do believe that what you seek is seeking you.

Hayley:

If you have an intention to be of service and you're putting it out there, even if it's just in your own mind, in your own meditation, in your own prayers of let me be a guy, let me be a vessel, how can I be of service in this world? You'll be amazed, waking up and saying, like random people reaching out to you, right, maybe someone asks you to lunch the next day and you realize, oh, you sit down and lunch and someone's talking about something and you're like, oh, wait a second, i can really be, i could hold space for this person right now. Holding space, literally listening to someone as they talk, without giving them any feedback, without giving them any advice, you know, unwarranted advice. That's being of service, being a listening ear, being a good friend, being a small little acts of service, and I think having patience for people who are in pain, and what I mean by that is that's a good one. Yeah, anyone that's around you maybe they're not even your friend, maybe they're your mean old neighbor that keeps yelling at you and your dog, or you know someone, who, who, anyone who is causing any type of friction out of you, right, if you could just pause, have patience and be non reactive and send that person love, that is a huge act of service huge And I think, little moments like that, you just build right, you build and you build and you build.

Hayley:

Because another thing about service is as much as being of service feels good. It's not about the outcome, right, and a lot of the times when we hold space for people or you know we're being of service is maybe doesn't actually feel good because maybe you're not getting the outcome or the reaction from the person that you thought you might, right. So being of service is showing up 100% for something or somewhere or someplace, with zero expectation of receiving anything, right, but then it I mean, then you ended up getting everything back from being of service, right. But there are moments of like, oh, i did this and I did that And this person not going to. You know what I mean Getting outside of yourself. It's not about you. Sometimes people don't know how to receive. Sometimes people feel uncomfortable when they get any sort of real love or affection. You know, you don't know what someone's going through. Just being able to hold space, even if someone's in pain, that's a huge part of service.

Ashleigh:

I love that. I love that you said that it's not about the outcome, because I think you can get so wrapped up in the outcome because you want good things for people, like especially if you're doing acts of service and you're being there for friends and family members and you want them to be better, and it's like it's not about the outcome, like whether this person how many times have we had conversations with friends and the friend is sitting there and they're like going through a bad breakup with like a toxic guy, and you're like finally getting through to her and she's like, yes, and she's like crying. She's like you're so right, i'm not, like I'm worth more than this. And you're like, yes, like this works. And then, literally that night, she's like I'm at his house.

Hayley:

I don't know if she's like on his couch. Oh, I want to put something in here. This is the most important tool, because now we're kind of going into a separate thing. That makes me think of one of the most powerful tools of being there for someone is always first listening and then asking before you say anything, No advice, nothing, not even inspiration, not even you know nothing, just being, do you saying do you just want me to listen? Do you want feedback? Do you want you know what I mean? Because sometimes people just want to be heard and they don't need your advice, They don't want it, They don't you know, and I think that's something, that's what's something I do with my partner and everyone now, because you know, they just really know you've got this or this or all the things. But really asking someone, do you want feedback or you just want me to sit here and listen? That's you. And people get really surprised. When you ask them, I'm like wow, like thank you, Thank you for asking that.

Hayley:

I just want you to listen.

Ashleigh:

You know, okay, perfect. So good, you taught me that. and now me and Jess is doing it. I'm like, are you open to feedback? And he's like, no, he just sits no all the time. And I'm like, fine, yeah. I'm like just with your partner. I like the very good, And then I try and one up and I'm like well, I am open to feedback. So a bit of the news.

Hayley:

So I just be like oh, that's noted. It's funny You're not open for feedback right now. Interesting.

Ashleigh:

Amazing. That was such. That was really, really helpful, i think, for people and the other part of that that I wanted to ask is, like, for people that feel like I don't think you touched on this about like being in 12-stay programs and knowing that like, even if you have days you know you have no days of sobriety you can still help someone. But maybe people feeling like they haven't come out of the whatever they're going through, they haven't come out the other side of it yet, like they don't feel healed, they still feel messy And they're like, well, i can't like A, i don't feel equipped to help or be of service, but B, i also just feel so overwhelmed with where I'm at. Like, oh my God, you're asking me to spend more energy on like being of service to others. What would you say to that?

Hayley:

So important because the balance of that, that it's a practice, because I know, especially as women, we're people-pleasers, right We're. Society literally pushes us to be people-pleasers, to put other people first too, you know, and so happy that you said that because you have to fill your cup first, we know that right. And if you're not in a place, then don't be of service to yourself, right, acts of service. They also count when it's for you. Acts of service to yourself is, you know, getting into your routines, you know finding your practices. That's what I teach at the Haven. I teach morning routines and breath work and yoga and I do fitness. I do all the modules, anything to connect back to me, anything to be grounded and who I am, so that I can show up for others. So acts of service can actually be.

Hayley:

I'm going to spend the entire day actually selfishly focusing on me and what I need And, you know, play around with it a little bit. Maybe. You know you have your good days. You have your bad days. When you're having a great day and you're feeling like you have something to give, you know, go be of service. And then, on the days when you're drained, your act of service is being there for yourself, is your own self care, is your own rest taking a long nap, you know And I think that's a great way to look at too of if I'm with people around, like if I feel like I'm being of service, and it's super draining also knowing like it's actually not you going out with an empty cup. You're not going to be able to water the gardens. You know You have to be selfish, and filling your own cup is actually not selfish, it's selfless, Because the more that I have, the more I have to give, and I think it's a practice.

Hayley:

I definitely have not found that balance. Sometimes I, even on a bad day, i feel like you know I have to be of service, and sometimes I go out and then you know I feel like I've been of service And then I feel so good And then sometimes it backfires And that's okay too. Everything is a practice, everything Just, and also forgiving yourself, you know, forgiving yourself for any days that you go out and you know you're drained or you stay home and you are just with yourself. It's all okay And it's all a practice.

Ashleigh:

Yeah, yeah. I feel like people are so hard on themselves And I just realized there's a very loud bike outside my window.

Hayley:

And I realized with this new place.

Ashleigh:

I don't know if the mic is picking it up, but with the new place I need to remind myself. I've got it recorded at the back. But anyway, we'll see.

Hayley:

Now I can't hear anything. And also, your new place is stunning. Thank you So good. The lighting Oh my God, i'm so happy. And this yellow sweater I saw the yellow. You're not. It's like you were like born in this sweater. I feel like it's like literally perfect on you. It's so soft. Yeah, it looks like a color.

Ashleigh:

Thank you, yeah, i need to incorporate it into my brand a little bit more. You are the sunshine Stop. Thank you, i forgot what I was going to say now, but No, I'm sorry It's going in, but the balance of being a service.

Hayley:

I'm currently in that, so I'm so happy that you said that right. Yes, i've had a couple of weeks of just drained energy and wanting to be a service, and then that guilt of oh, but I'm not giving enough.

Ashleigh:

I'm not giving enough.

Hayley:

And you know that's the ego, that's the bullshit, that's just that we get to forgive and let go of. Yeah, because right now I mean I feel good. Now I've been, you know, for the last kind of week, getting back into my staff and it's felt really good. But that question that you just asked is exactly what I went through of, you know, a couple of weeks ago, even being around people, i just didn't, i didn't feel myself, i didn't feel like I wanted, i didn't, i didn't have the capacity for it.

Ashleigh:

Yeah, yeah, exactly, and thanks for reminding me. I was like it's about trusting, like forgiving yourself, not being hot on yourself, but also trusting the seasons. And I feel like we whether you're in personal development or not like we all want the fucking rules, right? Okay, the rule is I must always be on service and that's going to make me feel good, and so then we're like following that rule. Following that rule And the truth is they are no rules, and there's like different seasons for different things, and self mastery is really about like knowing when to push, like yoga, right.

Ashleigh:

Like knowing when to push in a yoga class because you need to feel discomfort and pain, or knowing when, like it's a yoga class where, like fuck this, i'm in child's pose half the time, and like playing with that, making mistakes and always forgiving ourselves. And it's like we always want the rules right, we want the certainty, and it's the biggest, like you know, bullshit illusion is that there's rules for everything and certainty for anything. The only thing that's really ever present, ever, all the time, the only one rule is a consciousness of love. That is the only rule and certainty We can depend upon. It Doesn't matter what we're doing And we can always, at any moment, return to that And like it's. Sometimes it means pushing myself to get some love in the yoga class or in life and going hard, and sometimes it means like pulling it back And when I make a mistake I forgive myself and immediately I'm back to love. Like so is what brings more love.

Hayley:

Yeah, that reminds me. I sent you this is like a year ago and it was actually for justice because he was going through something And I sent you a passage from I think it was a Wayne Dyer book And it was about the reason of the season And it literally says there is time for work, there is a time for rest, there is a time for going all in, there's a time for literally doing nothing, and you have to have that time And that's what the burnout comes from. You did a whole thing on burnout today, right, and when you surpass those little moments that there's an actual time that should be allocated to certain things that you feel, no, no, i have to go, i have to go, then you're in your burnout. You actually are not connected to that conscious love that you're talking about, because you're not making room to connect, to ground into it, to feel it. Yeah, there's a time for sadness. There's a time for sadness. There's a time for crying your eyes out in the bathtub with an ice cream in your hand.

Ashleigh:

Yeah, yes, I want that. There is, you know.

Hayley:

Yeah, definitely is time for all those things.

Ashleigh:

Yeah, And what better? like I feel like as woman, like what better, What better equipment If that's a word like we're so well equipped to understand the seasons, like because of our cycles and how our hormones are always doing different things, and we're ovulating and we feel amazing, And then we're like coming up to our periods and we feel like shit and we need a rest And it's like that also just getting to feed into how good we are.

Hayley:

You mean label it as bad, right, You mean that it's horrible, when really no, there actually is a time. There's a time for self-doubt. There's a time like really there's time for that. There has to be, you know, because without the self-doubt, I mean, that gives us the moments to connect further and do who we are. Yeah, There's a time like, yeah, And obviously it's hard with the hormone from period. Obviously you're like this, Docs, and I hate this, but there's a time for that.

Ashleigh:

I love that you said that about self-doubt, because I just am making a new freebie for everyone, which is like 44 self-doubt to success affirmations And I'm going to do an audio as well And it's like self-doubt is your guide to your next spiritual expansion And like one of them is like self-doubt is just an indication that I want something I don't have yet, or I have to do something I've never done yet, and it's like yes, like just it's a whole journey of like loving yourself down.

Ashleigh:

Yeah, basically, because there's a time. Yeah, yeah, i love that, okay. So, oh, i'm so excited for this topic because, hey, i tell this to everyone, i did sit it on a call the other day and, um, uh, kaylee introduced this concept to me and I just think it's so great And it's so and I tell it to everyone now, my favorite quote, which is healing is not linear, and so you put that down on like my interview podcast, like guest questionnaire, as one of your favorite topics, and so do tell us more about how healing is not linear, growth is not linear. Yeah.

Hayley:

Growth, healing, success, all of it. Healing is not linear. We are students forever. We will always be on this journey if we choose to be right. And even the things I feel like that we work on the most right, the things that are our downfalls, are Achilles heels, which, again our pain is the pinpoint to our purpose and our passion. Right. The more that we work on it, the more that we access the part of us that so, for example, abandonment, right. Abandonment is huge for me and that's kind of something that I've always had to work on and I've done so much work on abandonment and I've done so much work on me being able to self soothe and me being okay, single, without a partner, and all these things. And to this day, when I'm in my moments of self down, when I'm on my moments of having my worst day, that is still the thing that comes up for me, right, and I think the most detrimental thing that we can do to our healing is thinking that we've healed completely from something, rather than knowing that this is something that will probably always come up in little ways And when it does, it's just a reminder.

Hayley:

Go back into your tools, go back into you know, whatever therapy or whatever that means to you, right? Therapy can be a million different things. Get back into your community, right. Get back into service, whatever that is, and instead of spiraling the fuck out into and this happened in so many different for me, specifically again with this abandonment thing and with relationships and how I used to act in relationships right, and this is actually a sixth cycle of addiction, because addiction is really the cycle of shame and guilt. So, whatever you're addicted to, you know you're alcohol, you're an alcoholic, and you are in program for five years and you've had five years of sobriety and then you pick up a drink And all of a sudden it's like square one And you forget that you have been for five years intentionally and consciously working on this thing that is so deeply ingrained in you And you leave all your love and compassion and empathy for yourself at the door And then the guilt and the shame come in, not the cycle, right. And instead of just taking that day and getting back in and saying that's okay, right, you go into the shame and the guilt and the cycle, And that's normally why people go out for a long time, whether it's drugs, whether it's alcohol, whether it's things that you do in relationships, whatever it is.

Hayley:

If we could just know that healing is not linear, meaning the things that we are working on might pop up, maybe even in little ways, but let it be a little way, let it come for a day, let it come for a little bit of time and observe it and be curious about it. Oh, wow, this is back. Okay, let's think about why. Why is it back right now? right, where is my fear, where is my insecurity? right here, and let it be your tool. And then it's like this continuous of growth, right, like, maybe it's not linear, so maybe it's going in like a bunch of circles, downward spiral, but then it is going to end up going up tiny bit, tiny bit, tiny bit, tiny bit.

Hayley:

But yeah, i constantly have people and clients who they shame themselves, they get into the guilt cycle because they did something really small, but it's attached to so much. It's attached to so much personal self-hate or self-doubt, right, and instead of just saying okay, feeling is not linear, this came back a little bit and I'm going to deal with it and I have the fucking tools. I've been working on this. I know how to do this. I got my toolbox. They got my spiritual piggy bank. It's full, it's ready to go, yeah.

Ashleigh:

Yeah, what a beautiful description of all of that And it's such a beautiful reminder. And I'm so grateful that you introduced that concept to me because I do it for myself all the time and my growth is not linear. And then I laugh, i'll be having it's like the quickest way to alchemy the shame or the disappointment or the being hard on myself spiritually and in personal development. And as soon as I'm like, oh wait, i'm back here because growth is not linear, then I can laugh about it And I'm like it's like the universe is playing a little trick on me or my humanness comes up through that. And I know, when I was in the Zen monastery I told you this, but I still haven't done a podcast on it because I actually don't even know how to freaking summarize my time there, like it was just so wild but something that I was really triggered in there a lot, and it was very much like being back at boarding school And when I left boarding I had like a lot of bullying, a lot of like just intense relationships in boarding school, a lot of like either being liked or really being disliked, you know, and living in community with like 30 to 50 other people, even though they Buddhists, even though it's like part of the precepts not to talk about other people I felt so insecure. A lot of the time I either felt absolutely amazing or very insecure, and I hadn't experienced those emotions in 12 years. Like I left boarding school and I was like fuck everyone. I'm never having a person in my life again that thinks I'm too much, that doesn't love me, that doesn't cheer me on, and so I designed this perfect little life for myself. And if you weren't one of those people, i was very quick to like cut people out. And I was like at the first and I cut out a lot of school friends a couple of years afterwards because they would show up and not be kind and I would be like don't have time for this. And so I'm so grateful because I have this amazing group of woman friends around me that are so loving but I'd never encountered. Like you know, there are 50 people there were working together.

Ashleigh:

Everyone's like very tightly strung in the monastery because we're not getting that much sleep, we're sitting around, and there's like lots of different personalities, different ages. Like you know, i don't want to give too many details, but like when we're working on a farm and it's intense, you know, and so, and everyone's got their idea of how things should go, and it's like projects and some people rub you the wrong way. I'm sure I rubbed people the wrong way as well Like I am a big personality, but, yeah, it was just very intense for me actually, like socially dealing with that, and I think a lot got triggered in boarding school and it was like a really visceral experience of like growth is not linear And I was like, wow, i've really designed this life where, like I because I don't also work in a workplace I never have to deal with people that don't like me. So, and then I was like, oh, maybe, like how am I going to do this? Like how am I going to deal with not everyone absolutely loving me? Also, i told you this like everything in the monastery is slow and patient and soft and gentle and like, like you know, and I'm so high energy and I felt like such a f**king. I felt like I stuck out because I had this big personality and everyone else is very introverted and like, anyway, it was very triggering And but what was cool, which is what you're talking about, is like I had the tools, like the way that I worked with my inner critic and like my dick and the way that I loved this.

Ashleigh:

Like younger Ashley that's like 15 years old like just trying to survive in boarding school with the most mindf**k social situations, like no parent I'm not seeing my mom for two months. It's not like most kids get to go home at the end of the day and, you know, have their family and, of course, their dynamics there, but there's at least a break from you know whatever. Like no, i'm sleeping in a dormitory with eight other kids and fighting and jealousy, and so, yeah, i just got to have like immense compassion and I just like would slow down and breathe. Like the amount of times I had to just put my hand on my heart and be like you're welcome here, like, and you are safe. And yeah, just like being with this younger part of myself the whole time and like having my highest self praise and, at the same time, being like this is really fucking interesting. I thought I was so confident and so secure and like I didn't realize these insecure little parts of myself still existed.

Hayley:

Yeah, it was crazy all of your stories in the monitor just popping through my head right now Like I'm thinking of all of them And what a time. It was so incredibly special to go through that journey with you And you know you couldn't be on the phone, but then, when you could, and you were just giving me all the downloads, you know, you telling me the stories about that and how that linked to you being in the monastery and just it was incredibly beautiful to watch and to witness And seeing you go through it all, but also with such grace and with such humor. And I'm thinking of, like, the story of when she said fuck in the kitchen. Oh my God, yes, i said fuck and I was like, oh my God.

Ashleigh:

I dropped a pan and I said motherfucker, Loud, because I dropped a pan and like, well, I burnt myself and no one. Everyone looked at me but no one said are you okay? And I think people were kind of shocked because I'm in a Buddhist monastery. And I just said motherfucker. And I immediately, and like I was surrounded by people that I loved and really was getting along with, but no one was like, are you okay? And they looked a bit shocked and I immediately just head to toe, like explosion of shame, Like what, like, what is wrong with you? Everyone's going to hate you. Because you just said this, Like it was visceral. I told Haley about this and I had to just walk out into the stairwell I can't remember And I like just stood there and I just breathed and I was like you're going to be okay, Like you're going to be okay. Yeah, that was hectic.

Hayley:

I had to like go and like literally half cry, half breathe in the stairway because at this time, like yeah, Monks say motherfucker Okay, as you mean an episode of one of your bod Actually and when I went back in the kitchen, yeah, and when I went back in the kitchen, it was so chill. Like I'm pretty sure I actually imagined all of that.

Ashleigh:

Like I imagined that. I don't think anyone even rated notice and I don't even think it was that loud Or sure, but I got to have, yeah, this moment where I parented myself. Anyway, wait, one more thing I just want to say about this topic specific.

Hayley:

I think the healing isn't linear. I think a perfect example of that is someone who, someone who would identify as a spiritual person, Right, Someone who is you know in their practices or you know they're meditating every day, whatever, whatever you think qualifies you to be spiritual person. We all are spirit, We're all spiritual, But people who identify as bad. But they have a spiritual power And I think that's a great example of that. I think that's a great example of that.

Hayley:

I think that's a great example of that. We're all spiritual, but people who identify as bad but they have a bad day and they think that that doesn't qualify them. They think that getting angry, having a bad day, even having a depressive episode, means, oh my God, i'm not. I'm not the spiritual being that I thought I was right. When actually that's like the direct, orally, like yes, i can, i can feel these big feelings and process these big feelings and sit with myself, right, so that's the whole, like the stigma of okay, so when I was on, so there was times in my life right where I, when I was experiencing my own bouts of extreme anxiety and extreme depression, and when I say that meaning like you know my, i would have anxiety attacks.

Hayley:

And anyone who's listening to this, you know who, if you have been through this and you've gone through something like any type of anxiety attack, knowing how, first off, i love you and I'm sorry And it can get better and it does get better. But days where you know I don't want to go to the hospital, like you feel like you're dying, heart is pounding cheats over my head, just crying in bed like just so, not okay, and there, and you know I was on, i was going through like different SSRIs at the time. Anyone listening SSRI, you know it's for just medication that you can use for depression, anxiety, things like that. But you know I was in between them and that's a whole another journey of getting in between one pill going to the next, like it's a process, it's a journey you can really fuck you up. So, anyway, after I got that under control, right After I wasn't having anywhere near like I have experienced anxiety, but not anxiety attacks, not wanting to go to the hospital, not feeling like I'm dying and not having any type of depression with any type of like suicidal ideations, anything like that, but just bad days.

Hayley:

And then it was years later And I had experienced a minor panic attack, right, and I just remember the fear that comes with that is holy shit. Is this going to be my life again? Am I? is this going to be crying under the covers for days at a time? Am I going to quit my job? Am I going to have to? you know, and and that kind of fear is what puts fuel to the fire of anxiety, right? So just knowing so that that phrase I keep with me all the time.

Hayley:

Human is not new. So if I do have a day where I'm experienced high level of anxiety, haley, you know, healing isn't linear. This isn't going to last You, you get to experience this. You don't want to be afraid of it. You have the tools, you know, and easier said than done, and I'm not saying that okay, you know, everyone can just say that and it's gone. You really, you know if, if you're having moments of of or long periods of that, you know, you know, go talk to your doctor maybe get on an SSRI, get on some doctor, get help.

Hayley:

But for me, i know that too, but it's also a tool. Healing is not linear. If I tomorrow was experiencing day in and day out anywhere near what I used to, then I would go to my doctor, i would get back on medication. You know what I mean, and I wouldn't have any shame around it. Healing is not linear.

Ashleigh:

I love it So awesome. And this is a good segue because you know it's like okay. So if healing is not linear, if maybe you're drinking, you know, maybe your triggers are always going to kind of be your triggers. They'll never, you know, if you continue to work on yourself they're not going to be huge and they go. They do get less or whatever. But like, your story is kind of like your story, Like when your dick wants to tell you a story like it's going to. It's got its go to.

Hayley:

You know your dick is your dick.

Ashleigh:

Big, it could be small. It can be big. You know, sometimes it wants to go this way. Sometimes, if you're real lucky, it's a micro dick and it's not around a lot. Yes, anyway, back to spiritual things.

Ashleigh:

Anyway, your dick is your dick, yeah, and so and there's the point of this as well like growth is not linear, it's like there's no destination, right? So then we're left with the journey And it's like, okay, where is the joy practice? Because If there is no destination, and it's just about the journey, and so you've just got to do your job, to feel joy on the journey. Like that is literally as simple as it is. And you, haley, are like the most like people think I'm joyful, like you are the most joyful Not to come We don't need to come here but you literally are like joy incarnate. And so I want to know and this was also on your, your list of like things to talk about was the embodiment of joy, and so tell me what that means to you, and then I'll ask a follow up question.

Hayley:

Yes, yes you are the embodiment of joy. Us together is joy on crack. It's like it's too much, It's too much for people to handle. Sometimes the amount of energy and joy and love that we get together just amplifies. And I am definitely, I'm a child. I play every day, I jump around every day, I laugh, I laugh my head off, You know, and I think, a that's my personality, B it's my practice. See it's. You know, it's always been kind of a way of being And, yes, I teach embodiment of joy.

Hayley:

But I think for everyone, just like everything else we've talked about, it's a practice. You have to practice your joy and you have to practice it every day. And what's great about practicing? you know I teach a lot of fitness, right, And people always be like, Oh well, how can you just like work out like this Or how can you do this? many?

Hayley:

I've been working out for 15 years, right, I was an athlete and in high school I played every single sport. So this is something that I have been practicing. It's a muscle, every single day. Even if I take weeks off, you know, I can get back into it and I don't lie to people and be like 30 days and you're ready to go. It's a practice And so a muscle in your body. your joy is a muscle and it's the most important muscle And actually your joy muscle is going to affect everything in your life, Everything, your happiness and everything else that you do in your work, in your relationships and anything. So practicing your joy muscle if you're not seeking and demanding and practicing your joy every single day, how are you expecting to be embodied? joy Because you can go to a class. Yes, you can go to a ecstatic dance class. You can go to a somatic healing class and someone can guide you and you can feel amazing and you can walk out and have so much joy. And then you can get in your car and someone can cut you off and then you can cut and get angry and like freak out and then hate your day. Right, And that's what happens normally And I think, practicing joy every day.

Hayley:

So just the analogy of like taking a shower every day, when people say to me, oh, okay, like say meditation, for example, people will go on this big five day meditation retreat and come back feeling amazing, but they have no daily practice and it's like showering Okay, you could go and take a 10 hour bath and scrub every crevice of your body and get a body feel and have beautiful lotions all over you for five days and feel like a goddess And that's amazing And I would recommend doing that. But two days after, if you come home and you don't even rinse, you're going to smell. You're going to start getting smelly, probably on the third day. And so even if it's just a little rinse right, even if you're joy of the day, maybe it's not a big ordeal. But if it's just a little rinse, you're going to every single day you've got to have your little rinse. Maybe just wash your hands, maybe you just wash your face, right. But you have to demand and practice your joy And I think the easiest way.

Hayley:

I don't have kids but I'm like the pipe paper of kids. I always want to be around children because they are the embodiment of joy And I think a lot of my friends and a lot of my clients they're all moms or maybe you have a little sister, brother, cousins, you know, nephews, nieces. I truly believe that just tapping into children energy, right, jumping on a trampoline, skipping, playing, pretend, whatever that is that is the quickest way for me to like, get into my joy. But here's another thing that I do all the time, like I'm constant, and I know you do this too. When we talk about it, It's like putting on your favorite song and dancing in the mirror full out.

Hayley:

When's the last time that you did that?

Hayley:

Truly, was the last time you did that? And if it has been a while, why? Why are you waiting to feel amazing? you know, there's nothing like having your favorite song on and you're just going at it, right? And if there's someone who's like, Oh my God, I can never picture myself doing that, then practice just a little bit. You know what I mean. I, I some unlike twerking in front of the mirror sometime, like I'm getting that energy going, you know.

Hayley:

And it doesn't have to be in the yoga class, in the meditation class, in the ecstatic dance. It's just a big community, amazing joy that I love all of that and I do all of that. But it is the daily rents, it is the daily shower, it is the, the demanding of the joy. And if you let enough time go by when you're not demanding your joy and then it's just harder to access, you know. But thank God, it's for fun and it's for free, baby.

Hayley:

And and the more that you practice it, the more that your brain literally requires itself, because a lot of people are brains are wired to feel good and sadness. I know that was something for me for a long time where when I was super sad to breath, whatever I was going through, I would do everything to make it 10 times worse. I would put on the Lana Del Rey in the car and just think of all the horrible things and actually think about trauma as a young kid and the abandonment that I felt, And we all do that in certain ways. But that's just keeping that hard wiring of our brain in that sadness, in that drama, right. So that's why the daily practice of feeling the joy and then it just becomes your life like. It just becomes like I don't have to try, I'm, my joy is here And that's like my daily. I'm more in my joy than anything else. Yeah, I practice it, I demand it and talk about it. Right, reach for it.

Ashleigh:

I love that. I love that, and I think it's also like you can assign joy right, like you can start to. You know, i was again speaking to someone about these, these, this the other day and I was like, have you noticed that your walk can be joyful? Have you noticed that, like your match or your coffee in the morning can be joyful? And it's like just looking at your coffee and acknowledging like Holy shit, this is like my little cup of joy, you know, and that's an immediate like.

Ashleigh:

So you can assign joy to things that you that maybe you've like grown, i don't know, you know used to or whatever you know you're not like. So it's like almost like a joy activation and a joy awakening. So, yes, there's like the don't, like you said, like the dancing or going to an ecstatic dance class and that kind of stuff can kind of open a hole inside of people that they need. But also like there are joyful activities and you can assign joy to them. You know, it's like a sign and gratitude. You can walk around and just like point out what's wrong or you can be like, oh, my God, actually I have so much to be grateful for. Yeah, yeah, love that. Okay. So the last thing you're going to be back on and we'll talk about mental health and addiction for sure, because I feel like that's a whole that actually would be set whole podcast episode- Let's do it on the next one for sure, but I want to know what makes you an ultimatum spirit.

Hayley:

I wrote down from abandonment to abundance and I actually love that, i really love that And definitely I think that whole your pain being the pinpoint to your purpose. You know, i think that is really my alchemy spirit journey and doing it in large and small ways, you know, even now, just taking a bad day and using that again to be of service to someone else, i think that's turning your pain into serve, your sufferings into service, and I think is what I would say is my alchemy spirit ways.

Ashleigh:

Yeah, yeah. And what? like one of the most powerful ways, for sure, yeah, that's alchemy suffering to service.

Hayley:

Yeah, abundant Calling you. I love you. Get yourself a bug. Get yourself a bug, and then you're good. Well, now my spirit.

Ashleigh:

Thank you. Well, how bug. How can everyone get a hold of you? How could they work with you if that's available right now?

Hayley:

The havencom, so it's like my name, h A Y L E Y, so it's T H E the haven, h A Y V E Ncom, and you can read a little bit about me there. You can book a session with me, you can do a 30 minute prep call And really just there's so many little boxes where we just want to ask a question. Or you know, i have a full roll of decks of other people that I work with in person and on zoom. So, yeah, hit me up with any questions. If you have any questions about this podcast, hit me up if you want to work with me, if you have questions about what I do, it's all available there on my website.

Ashleigh:

Amazing Yay, i love you so much. Thank you for doing this Flip. We've been wanting to do this for so long, so yeah, i'm excited for the next one.

Hayley:

Yeah, i love you. I love you. You are my joy, you really are.

Ashleigh:

Thank you. You are my joy, appreciate you.